$900/Month Cash Flow from His FIRST Rental ($0 Down!)

Could rental propertiesToday’s guest, Joe Poli watch colleagues lose their jobs overnight, pushing him to dive ahead first into real estate.Joe’s gone from a cautious high earner to building a thriving portfolio that pays him even while he sleeps. And today he’s breaking down every step he took to get there.This is the Real Estate Rookie podcast. I’m Ashley Kehr.And I’m Tony j Robinson. Joe, welcome to the Real Estate Rookie podcast. Super excited to have you with us today.Yeah, welcome. It’s an honor to be here. I was very surprised to get the call, but happy to be here and be on with you too.Well, Joe, you’re making great money and your career seems secure, but then your friends suddenly start losing their jobs. Take us into that moment when you first felt really vulnerable and realized everything could change overnight for you as well.Yeah, so the timeframe was March, April, May, 2020. Small little thing going on across the world called COVID. At that beginning, everything’s just kind of spinning out of control for a lot of people in those early stages. Obviously a lot of stress and uncertainty, not just for me, but again for so many people worldwide. And one of the things that started happening in my circle was I started to see friends and colleagues and people that I respected being furloughed or being let go, being downsized, being asked to take massive pay cuts. And the thing that struck me with that is coming from the corporate world, you always hear a term like hypo a high potential. Somebody who they’re doing great at their job, they’re also going to be able to do more, take additional steps. A lot of these people, they were hypos, they were tagged by their organization as top performers going to do more.And then all of a sudden, through no fault of their own, they’re being asked to take pay cuts or to go on a furlough or be let go. And so it was really just a wake up call for me where I just knew that, okay, something outside of my control can actually now impact my ability to support my family. And so it was just something I never thought was possible before. And so it really opened my eyes and made me think that I have to do something else on the side to make sure that if that does happen, me and my family would be okay.Joe, what a relatable moment. Because I think a lot of folks experienced that during COVID as well. So much so that it became the great resignation where so many people had these wake up calls around, am I actually doing what it is that I want to be doing? And you said something that was really interesting where you said you realized that your income could be taken away due to no fault of your own due to things completely out of your control. And the very similar thing happened with me Christmas Eve 2020. I ended up losing my job that I had climbed the corporate ladder, definitely had that high potential flag on my name as well. And you wake up one day and now you’re unemployed. So how do you go from that realization to maybe starting down the path of financial freedom? I know you dabbled in a few side hustles first, but something clicked late at night that made you realize that real estate was a way. So what were some of those frustrations you felt with those other side hustles and what eventually made you realize that real estate was the right path?Yeah, I did. I researched and I explored a bunch of different things, and ultimately what I landed on was e-commerce, which that was kind of the rage coming out of COVID, right? And so I did some things in moderate level of success, but nothing really game changing. And so we had this e-commerce store and had a product that was selling pretty well, and then all of a sudden one day the Facebook ad just crashed and sales tanked, and there was nothing else coming in. And so one night, late at night, it was like 11, 11 30, that’s late for my wife and I. We go to bed early, she’s sleeping next to me in the bed, I’m sitting up with the laptop open Googling, and just trying to research what happened and how to fix it. And then it just kind of dawned on me, I just had this moment of clarity right there.It’s like some people, they might be making 70, 80, 90 k, a hundred k, whatever it is, and then they’re trying to create an income on the side for freedom, flexibility, and they’re trying to generate 30, 40, 50 K on the side, and that provides them the ability to go out and do something else or that freedom they’re looking for. And it just kind of dawned on me like, wait, what am I doing? Why am I trying to be a Facebook marketer now that can actually just jump into real estate now? Because I had always in the back of my mind thought about real estate and getting into real estate, even when I was a young kid, I always thought I would just own a bunch of rental properties. And then for whatever reason, it just didn’t happen. I just never got into it. And so at that point, I was just like, I’ve got the income now. I don’t really need to go be an online marketer. I don’t need to build websites. I can just kind of pivot the way that we’re structuring our spend and our investing and we can just jump right into real estate now. And so that was probably, I don’t know, September, October, somewhere around there in 2021. And I’m an action taker. Yes, I do research, but I’ve always got a bent towards action. And so by January, 2022, we had closed on our first deal,Joe, for someone listening that maybe has just decided today they want to do real estate, and this is the first episode they’re listening to of rookie, what are the first steps they should be taking when they decide the moment I want to invest in real estate? And maybe it’s things that you did or maybe things that you look back and think would’ve helped you if you would’ve done them.Yeah, I think research, understanding a little bit about real estate, knowing what you’re looking for, what you want to accomplish, and then talking to agents or brokers and letting other people know that you’re looking to get into real estate, that was really important for me. I immediately started going to our local real estate meetup and meeting other investors locally, and then we just started walking properties. But it was really that knowing that this is what I wanted, then talking to people who were in it and then just jumping in and doing the steps necessary, which is researching deals and walking properties.And Joe, all of that action, as you said, led you eventually to that first deal. But I also know that your first property felt a little intimidating at first glance, which is fair for most rookies. So what exactly shifted inside of you, moving from overwhelmed to saying, I can actually do this?Yeah, there was a triplex. It was listed on the market and I walked through it with my realtor. And so it was an old big house that had been converted at some point over time. And the downstairs was one really large unit that somebody started a renovation, but then you could tell they just kind of thought better of it at some point. There was one unit upstairs that was occupied with a squatter, which I didn’t know. In fairness, I didn’t know that she was squatting at the time, but I learned that out quickly after closing. And then the third unit was just crazy. So if you can picture Dorito bags, bush light cans, some empty, some not empty cigarette butts, old electricity bills, phone bills, and tons of pennies. I don’t know what it was with the pennies, but there was hundreds of pennies scattered throughout this unit.And so when we got into that unit, I literally, my head exploded. I was just like, oh my goodness, what is, this is going to take two years and a hundred thousand dollars. I just didn’t know anything. And so I walked away from there just thinking, no way. There’s no way that I can do this deal and make this work. And so I was talking to my realtor the next day, a couple of days later, and he’s a friend of mine and he’s like, Joe, I think you can probably turn that property around for 25 or $30,000. I was like, I didn’t buy that. He said, look, just take Aaron through. And Aaron is another friend of ours and he’s a contractor. The three of us walked through together and we’re just kind of walking through and our contractor’s just telling us, yeah, you can do this and this, and we can just do this and we can save here. And so it just kind of opened my eyes and at the end of the walk, I just asked him, I said, Hey, do you think that we can do this for 25, $30,000? And he did. And so at that point, when I knew that, I just kind of took a step back and said, alright, I mean I can have three units for about a hundred thousand dollars. That’s a great price per unit. And we made an offer literally at the end of that day and pulled the trigger on the deal.Well, Joe, I think that is a great example of building your team and surrounding yourself with people who are knowledgeable in different aspects, especially in your local market. Your agent knew what a contractor would charge or what the material costs would be or whatever for a property like that. And that is just such a huge advantage of finding team members that are able to give you referrals or give you advice. And I say that because we always say, find an investor friendly agent, find an investor friendly lender, and those are key. But you really have to decide for yourself, what do you need an agent for? Is it just to show you properties? You already know everything about the market, you already know your buy box, you already know how to estimate a rehab. Is it that you need them to refer contractors because you don’t know any in the area? Agents can provide so much value. And I think that initial conversation when vetting an agent, just letting them know what you are looking for and what you need help with too, can be really beneficial.And I still work with both of those guys pretty consistently today. So it is a nice team environment that we have going on.Coming up Joe’s surprising discovery about financing that flipped his stress into massive cashflow. We’ll cover that right after a quick word from today’s show sponsor. But first, today’s video is sponsored by Reim. If you’re in real estate, I am, you don’t want to lose deals juggling multiple tools. That’s where it simply comes in a true all in one CRM designed for real estate investors like us with recently, you can connect with motivated sellers through calls, texts, emails, or direct mail. Plus enjoy free skip tracing, cash buyer searches, customizable websites, and automated drip campaigns that turn cold leads into successful deals. Head over to reim.com/biggerpockets now to start your free trial and get 50% off your first month. Once again, that’s R-E-S-I-M-P i.com/biggerpockets. Okay, let’s get into the video. Okay. Well, Joe actually turned his fears into a financial breakthrough that changed everything. Let’s dive deep into that pivotal moment. So Joe, for us, that feeling, when your banker casually mentioned you needed $0 to actually purchase this property,It was a good feeling. I got connected with a local bank, just a small community bank, two branches, and when I contacted them about the property, I did ask, can I put some of the renovations into the loan? But even though they told me, yeah, yeah, we can do that. I didn’t really ask a lot more questions after that. And I had about $25,000 set aside that it was just earmarked. I was like, okay, this is what I am spending on this deal. Now I can tap into more if I need it. However, I don’t really want to go over that with the money that I brought to the table because that’s just kind of what I set it aside for. And so as we’re progressing through the timeline, we do the inspection, everything’s good, we do the appraisal, everything’s good, and we’re getting closer and closer to the closing date.And I literally have zero information. And most of that is just, I just didn’t know what I didn’t know and I didn’t know what to ask. But finally, I call the bank like, Hey, what do you need from me? How much do I need to bring? Can I bring a check? Do you need a cashier’s check? Do I need to put money in escrow? I kind of need to know. And she said, oh, you’re good. And I just kind of stopped and said, wait, what do you mean I’m good? She said, you don’t need to bring anything. I said, what? I literally just shock value said what? And so she walked me through it. And so the way they were structuring these deals at the time was they would loan 85% of the A RV. And the way the property, the way we walked through and with the appraiser and explained what we were going to do, it appraised at like $150,000.Well, the purchase price was 74. I was asking for 27. So I was well under the 85% threshold even with the closing costs. So I literally walked away with that property with nothing upfront out of pocket. Now, I did have some holding costs, and we went a little bit over our budget, but not much. So in the end, I had a little bit in it, but in terms of just that upfront, coming to closing my first deal, literally walked in with nothing in my pocket, closed with three units, and that property has averaged $900 plus cashflow since the time that I bought it, including vacancy and CapEx.Oh my goodness, what an amazing first deal man. And the parallels between our stores just get even stronger because the very first deal I ever purchased, I also went to a local bank that was in that town and they funded 100% of my purchase and my renovation, and I had $0 out of pocket to buy that deal. But what’s crazier is that you didn’t even ask for that. They just gave it to you. But I think it reinforces a point that Ashley and I make all the time of the power of working with the smaller local banks who know the area, who maybe even know the property, like, oh yeah, we’ve actually lent on that deal before. We’d love to get another mortgage on that deal. So Joe, you find this amazing loan product, and I want to talk about your future deals, but just out of curiosity, did you do multiple deals with that same bank?Yeah, so we have several buy and holds, and then we’ve done a couple of flips through them as well.And were all of them with that same structure?Most of them were. There was one that was a little bit different. I actually bought the property with my heloc, and then I did an immediate cash out refi for more than I paid, so they gave me money at the closing table when I did that deal.That’s even better, almost.Yeah. So all good deals with that bank so far.So Joe, it seems like you’ve had great success, especially on the funding of each of these properties. Was there at any moment where there was kind of a pitfall or a challenge that you had to overcome?Yeah, I would say when we bought a six unit property, now the way this unit was, there was three units that were active, and then there were three unit. There was a three story kind of shell that just needed a complete gut job. And so this was one where nobody else saw the vision of the property other than me. And so coming to the right terms with the seller on the price was a little bit of challenge. We actually tried to lock that property up in July and we couldn’t come to terms, and then we ended up circling back and getting it in December. And at that point, interest rates had gone up quite a bit, so it cost me a decent amount by not closing that deal in July. But also because the renovations were so drastic, it just took a little more thorough detail and planning to really make sure that the appraiser saw what we were doing and that the value came back high enough for the bank to loan what I wanted them to loan. But it was a similar structured deal in that most of those renovations were covered by the bank. We did go about $20,000 over on that. But again, that it’s a six unit property that’s bringing in almost $6,000 gross a month because it’s a mixture of midterm furnished and just regular long-term buy and holds. So I was definitely okay with that, but it just took a little more planning and detail to get that one over the goal line.So Joe, your first triplex deal was almost too good to be true. What an amazing first deal. But how did that early success, because it can happen, did it influence the way that you approached your next investments and did it work in your favor? Was it more of an impediment having such a great first deal?Yeah, so the million dollar question is was it a great first deal or was it a terrible first deal, right? Because it was a great first deal from numbers, but it completely skewed my perception of what a deal should be. And so I would say that that hurt me actually a little bit because in those early months, I actually walked away for some really good deals because I didn’t want to put any money in. And so looking back, these were actually good deals and I killed ’em over a few thousand dollars. And we live in a small town, so I drive by those properties quite a bit. And they’re ones that I kick myself because in our market it’s super competitive with investors because our median home value is $170,000, the median income is 40,000. So there’s a high renting population, there’s a lot of investors. And so nowWhat market is this?This is Zanesville, Ohio,Just so it can get more populated with investors by announcing it.Yeah, I was going to say, I don’t want anybody else coming here. All right. We got enough competition, but it’s small town Ohio. We’re about an hour east of Columbus,Which Columbus is a hot market. People talk aboutVery, very hot, but they do not have the low prices that we have. And so the market is super competitive now, and so the prices that those homes hit for this is just not going to come up again. And so that first year, even though we closed on four deals, I probably could have closed another three or four more that I didn’t, because that first deal was so good that I had this standard in my head that just really wasn’t necessarily always achievable. I know a little bit better now.And I’ve also seen here that you’ve actually not just bought properties off the MLS, but you’ve actually used auctions, found probate properties and even converted single family homes into duplexes. So what was different about these deals from just buying a standard rental property on the MLS? Were there any valuable lessons that you learned along the way?Yeah, so there was actually one property that almost encompassed all of those strategies. And it started off on market and it was on market for like 68. And when I walked it, if you can just kind of think of a house that a smoker lived in, poor ventilation, poor lighting, yeah, dark carpet, dark walls, not only picture, you can probably feel the atmosphere of that property. And so it sat on the market for a little while. We offered 45. They didn’t accept it. I came up to 50 and said, look, that’s the highest and best. They came back and said, we only want 68, we’re just going to let it go to foreclosure if we don’t get it. And so I thought that our offer was pretty fair though. And so I through the recorder site, because we found out that it was in an estate, and I don’t know the whole backstory, but the gentleman who was living there ended up in a nursing home and passing away.And so he had a brother who was several hours away and a lawyer that were kind of handling this. And so in on the recorder site, I found the bank that had the note, which is another bank here that I have a relationship with. And I called my broker there and I said, Hey, I know that based on what I could tell that my offer was more than what the note was left on that. And I said, look, they’re saying they’re going to let this go to foreclosure. Is there anything you can do to force their hand? So he gave me the number of somebody to talk to and I talked to them, and I don’t know the legalities of it. I don’t know what exactly was the situation. I just know they told us that they couldn’t force their hand. And so to me, it just seemed like that deal was dead.We completely walked away from it, and I just really didn’t think about it a lot after that. But a few months later, I dunno if it’s 4, 5, 6 months later, I saw it on an auction site. And so my initial offer on that property was 45. I ended up getting it at auction for 42. And so I got it for less than I actually wanted to get it for at first, which was just a slam dunk. And then that property was a single family that we converted to an up and down duplex because it just made sense in terms of what the money that I was going to need to put into get it up to speed, it made sense to make it a duplex and essentially double the rent that I was going to get. And then that property also had another strategy because the way that the timing worked out of it, when I bought it, we were still renovating our six unit building, which was a massive renovation that took almost six months. And then we had some other timing backup. So by time we got those units renovated and rented out, my year of seasoning was up. And so I immediately bird out and got almost all of my money back out from the renovation and the purchase price.I think that one of the big takeaways here is just the patience of the deal, but also that actually was a really interesting idea, even though it didn’t pan out, was to contact the bank and say, Hey, I know you hold the note on this property to see if there was anything that they could do. That was definitely a great first step to take to getting the ownership of this property.But isn’t it so silly that the seller and the bank would’ve all been better off had they just accepted your initial offer at 45, right? It’s like, I wonder what the red tape is there that those kind of conversations can’t happen. So I dunno. I guess if you’re a real estate attorney of some sort, let me, Joe and Ashley know what’s going on there. But dude, I love that you’re not afraid to jump into different strategies. Just really quickly, give us the 32nd highlight. What was the process buying at auction? Were you actually at the courthouse steps? Was it all online? Just what was the quick A to Z of what that auction process looked like?Yeah, I was a hundred percent online. I registered, and this was not a site that I needed to have any money on deposit in escrow, so it was pretty seamless. I had to sign some disclosures upfront. And then during the auction, once I won it, and I was the highest bidder, I had like 24 hours to put $5,000 to wire, $5,000 to them. And then it was like another 40 days or so to close with the rest, and I just did a cash purchase with it to keep it moving pretty quickly. And the neat thing about that is the auction site actually had some brokers who were contacting me through the process and just helping me walk through it. So it wasn’t like something that I had to fully navigate a hundred percent on my own. There was someone on the other end who was making sure that I had the right instructions, filled out the right paperwork, and so it was actually pretty seamless, honestly, it was almost easier than buying something off the MLSWebsite. Was that Joe? What was the auction site? auction.com. Oh, there you go. Easiest one.I guess one follow up to that I have is through the auction process. Did they allow anyone to look at the property or did you have that as an advantage that you had already seen the property?Yeah, it was closed, so they would not let anybody in. It was locked up. So I did have that as an advantage because I had the vision of what we were going to do with it anyway. And so having walked it and knowing exactly how we would convert it, I’d say that I had a leg up on most people.Now, Joe, you totally redefined your real estate dreams, shifting from quantity to really focusing on freedom. And next, I’ll have you go through the personal reasons behind this major pivot, all that after a quick break. Alright guys, we’re back here with Joe. Now, Joel’s goals underwent a dramatic shift from chasing doors to embracing freedom. And I want to get a better understanding of why exactly did that happen. So Joe, you initially envisioned managing 50 doors, but now you’re focused on owning fewer fully paid off properties, and this is a hot debate in the world of real estate investing. So walk us through the moment you realize that less debt meant more peace.And I think the first thing I would say to my, not my listeners, the listeners,They’re your listeners today, they’re your listeners today,Is that it is okay to pivot and it is okay to change your strategy. There’s just so much information out there and it can be easily to get caught up in the next fad, but I think you got to just find what is right for you. And so when I first got into real estate, it was all right, 50 doors in three years, and I just got that number by backing into the math. Here’s how much money I wanted to make a month. If an average door is going to cashflow this much, then here’s how many that I need. I want to do it in three years to move quickly. But as we got into it, I just realized that that’s actually not necessarily what I really want. Again, there’s so much information out there. I’m not saying what’s right and what’s wrong, but when I started to determine what was right and wrong for me, I just realized I can get to the same number with less risk and less stress, right?50 doors that are highly leveraged versus 15 to 20 that are fully paid off. They get me to the same goal. So my goal hasn’t changed really, just the strategy and the timeline of how I want to get there and how fast I want to go. So it was really more of a pivot on the path than it was on really where we want to end up. And so we are still buying some long-term rentals, but we kind of switched our strategy to focus on flips, and then we’re taking the profits from flips and then putting that into debt reduction. And by we, it’s just me and my wife because we self-manage. And so part of our mission is we want to help make our community a better place. And so we do. We get to know our tenants probably a little bit more than others.And again, not saying what’s right or wrong, it’s right for us. We do some unique things. We give every year in December, we give somebody free rent for Christmas, and so we help alleviate some stress in their life. And so for us, when I started looking at the bigger picture, I was like, man, do I want 50 tenants or do I want 15 to 20? Do I want 35 roofs or do I want 10, right? So less roofs, less furnaces that can go out. When I just really started define what real estate was going to do for me, it wasn’t about the amount that we had, it was about the cashflow that it provided. And so debt reduction seemed like the real natural next step for us and how we wanted to pivot our strategy.Yeah, Joe, I think Tony and I have had similar realizations as far as property count. I was 30 by 30 and I missed it by one month. I got my 30th door a month after my 30th birthday, and it was like, it’s silly now to think of that the number, the unit count, you can do way more with, like you said, paying down your properties and not even having mortgage payments, but also focusing on the operations. If you have less properties, you could very easily be more attentive to those properties. And as far as stabilizing them and maximizing their potential, and that was a big realization for me. And like you said, the overhead, well, geez, you have 50 water bills to make sure that they’re paid 50 insurances to quote out every single year to make sure you’re getting the best premium. So there’s so many other things, and your property management software or different software you use, a lot of times that goes up by how many doors you have and it can increase. So every little thing, the more doors you get.Yeah. And Joe, I think there’s, like I said, I think it’s a hot debate in the world of real estate investing around paid off real estate, and there’s the numerical argument to be made or the mathematical argument to be made that having fully paid off real estate is a bad investment. Because in theory, if you have a house that’s worth $100,000 and say you’re getting over $5,000 a year in cashflow, that’s a 5% return. But I could take that $100,000 and go invest that and maybe get a 12% return or a 15% return or a 20% return or some other much higher number. So from return perspective, it’s reduced. But it sounds like what you’re focusing on is not necessarily maximizing the return, but it’s maximizing the peace of mind that comes along with having paid off real estate. And I think that’s a decision that each individual investor will have to make for themselves. But have you guys already started that process, Joe, of using the flip proceeds to pay down some of the debt?Yeah, we have. So we’re actually doing flips right now, so we haven’t made any large payments to debt reduction yet. I fully see what my tax implications are, but then we’ll strategically pay it as time goes on. And I will say this because it’s such a valid and interesting point, Tony, in terms of the returns and the percentages that everyone are looking at. And I love what you said, everyone’s got to make their own decision what’s right for them and for us, we live very simply. When I tell people what our house payment is, especially if they’re in a high cost living market, they kind of freak out on me. And I’ll just say it here, whether you use it or not, it’s like we pay $450 a month for our house payment. We’re not living in a shack. I see your face, Tony. See that?Yeah. Especially Tony living in California.Yeah, yeah. And we drive paid for cars that we paid cash for. We used to do the whole Dave Ramsey thing. Our biggest line item is our giving. We give 25% of my take home every single month, but we are not, and since I started later in life, I have some other assets that are producing. I’m not dependent upon real estate for retirement. We have college funds set up for our kids. And so this decision, again, I’m not here to say what’s right or wrong for anyone, but based on our current situation, it works for us and it’s right for us, and we are not. I recognize that even in the long run that’s going to produce less wealth. I’m not doing the most in real estate in my town. I have friends who they’ve got six flips going on instead of two, and they’re buying up everything and that’s right for them, and that’s good. We’re doing this for different reasons. And so as we kind of took a step back and really evaluated, what do we want real estate to be? For us, debt reduction was the right choice, but it might not be for everyone. And that’s okay. That’s the great thing about real estate. It can really do for you what you need it to do for you based on your situation.And Joe, I love that for you, that you have figured out what you want out of real estate investing. You don’t want more stress, you don’t want more headaches. You want financial freedom, but also you’ve figured out a way where you can reach that financial security, that financial piece faster by not inflating your lifestyle. You’ve realized that driving paid off cars is more of an advantage to you than buying a hundred thousand dollars truck. And that is a trade off that I think some people don’t realize. They think, wow, I’m making this money. I can go buy that dream car I always wanted, is that really your dream though? And so all our rookies listening, I want you to sit down right now after this episode and figure out what do you really want out of real estate investing? If it is financial security, how important is that to you?And are there other things in your life that aren’t that as important that can get you to that financial security faster? So I think we’ve all probably had realizations of thinking there was something that we wanted, but realizing the peace, the happiness, and just being content is way better than actually having to work and stress just to be able to make the payment on whatever that item may be. Well, Joe, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciated you coming onto the show and sharing your journey. Where can people find out more information about you?I think the best place is probably LinkedIn, so Joe Poli, P-O-Z-Z-U-O-L. I think we probably link to it in the show notes. You can find me on Instagram or Facebook, but you’re going to see a lot of pictures of my kids and nothing probably of value.Hey, hey, your kids are valuable, Joe. They help you clean out the units. Come on, Joe.I don’t mean that. Yes, my kids are very valuable, but I’m usually just not even sharing about real estate or anything on those platforms. And with LinkedIn, I go through seasons of getting active and then not active. I’m trying to do less social media in my life, but LinkedIn’s probably the best place to connect. You’ll see me sharing tidbits on leadership and wisdom on corporate management and things like that, mostly there.Well, Joe, we really appreciated your story and giving valuable insight to our rookie listeners. I’m Ashley, he’s Tony, and this is the Real Estate Rookie Podcast. Thank you for listening.