Housing Demand Grows as 10 Major Cities See Price Drops

Dave:
Housing demand is up, but prices are dropping. Mortgage rates have been a little bit better, but layoffs are all around us. The upside down economy that we’ve been in for years is rolling on, but we’re here to help you make sense of it. Everyone, welcome to On the Market. I’m Dave Meyer, joined by James Dainard, Kathy Fettke and Henry Washington today to talk about the latest news and try and instill some sense, some narrative that makes sense about what’s going on. Kathy, I think I’m gonna call on you first ’cause you got an uplifting story here about the housing market in the economy. Share it with us.Yes. Everybody could use a little good news. So this is an article from Housing Wire. It is housing demand now reflects a positive trend. And this is written by Logan Mo Shami, who I know we all follow. He tracks weekly data. And what he says in this article is so much of the data that we see in headlines is dated. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. It’s two to three months old, especially the case index that gets headline news and people are talking about something that was three months ago and we’re not in that market now. So his weekly tracker is super helpful. It’s more volatile. ’cause week to week, if there’s a holiday or something, you’re gonna see skewed numbers. But still there is a lot of important information. Highly recommend it. The one I wanna focus on is the section of this article that’s housing inventory. Because the headlines are talking about all this inventory.
We’re constantly talking about it being a buyer’s market and the shift and so forth. But that is dated news. And what is more current is that the housing inventory data showed 33% year over year growth earlier in the year. And that’s the story people are talking about. But now it’s down to 16% year over year growth. So what we’ve seen in the last few months is obviously mortgage rates have come down a bit, and we’ve talked about this for a long time, that as soon as mortgage rates come down, there’s a whole bunch of people that can enter the market. It’s doesn’t make it more affordable for everybody, but it makes it more affordable to some people who were just on the edge and given the massive number of millennials out there in that house buying era in the mid thirties, give them a little leeway and they’ll take it. Right. So that’s what we’re seeing. And we’re just going into a season where there’s less inventory anyway because it’s the holidays. You don’t really wanna show your house, um, during Thanksgiving or Christmas. So inventory levels tend to go down anyway. And because mortgage rates are lower, Logan was kind of worried like, dang it, I’d liked the higher inventory. This is better, healthier for the housing market. And now we’re kind of going back to less inventory.Well I’m so glad you brought this story here Kathy, because it is probably one of the most misunderstood parts of the housing market right now is you see on social media all the time. Yeah. There’s no buyers, no one’s buying homes. That’s not what’sHappening. Yeah.Actually we see that home sales is up a tiny bit year over year, but when you look at mortgage purchase applications, it’s up year over year. Yes. From this time last year. And it’s because rates have gone down. And I know it doesn’t feel like rates have come down that much, but they were at 7.2 in January and now they’re at 6.2. Like that matters. One full percent that matters, that’s hundreds of dollars a month. So people are noticing that and coming back into the market, the reason sales prices are dragging is because of inventory. But as Kathy pointed out, we’re getting that correcting kind of vibe where people are realizing it’s a bad time to sell. So they’re not selling. Uh, and so that’s why we’re probably in a normal sort of correction, but that is not because there’s no one buying. People are still buying homes at the same rate they have the last few years. It’s just a little bit different vibe.Like you said, it’s increased a little bit. Um, I think, I think it was 4.02 million or something. Sales volume. Yeah. Which is up, it was, it was under 4 million.It was,Uh, before. So yeah, just it, it’s different per market and that’s where people are like, in my market, my stuff’s not selling. I mean, I just talked to someone who said I’ve, he’s had his flip on the market somewhere on the East coast and for a long time and it’s not selling. Uh, so that would just tell me it’s not priced right. Right.<laugh>. Yeah. It just feels draggy in a lot of markets and I think we’re gonna mm-hmm <affirmative>. We’re gonna, we’re gonna talk about that. But I do think that’s encouraging. And what we’ve seen so, so much in the last two or three years is that demand is way more interest rate sensitive than it is during normal times.Yes.For most normal eras, interest rates fluctuate by 0.25%. Doesn’t really change anything. Or 0.5% doesn’t change anything. Now people are like, oh, I’m gonna jump in this week. You know, there’s inventory rates are down. Last week it was 6.1%, like if you jumped in, that’s the best rate we’ve seen in years. Yeah. You know, and, and there’s better inventory. You have better negotiating leverage. This is the buyer’s market. It’s not great for sellers, but buyers are, I think, gonna start coming outta the woodwork ’cause there’s gonna be better opportunities to buy.You know, one thing that does drive me bonkers is when people start talking about trends and it’s been two to three months. <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>. Like, it’s like what trend is that? Like that’s, that’s a blip. Because what I do know is at the beginning of the year we were red hot that first quarter, lots of buyers and it wasn’t even just things were selling, there was just a lot of showings going on. We had some tariff news come out, market froze up. And now rates like Dave just said, is like nearly half point, three quarters point lower. Right. So like, it’s not just all rates, it’s, it’s also just, I think just a mental fear thing.Mm-hmm <affirmative>.But you know, I feel like inventory is going down because people are kind of in this panic because they’re like, I’m gonna miss the moat. I’m gonna throw my house up for sale. And then they’re canceling too quite a bit.Mm-hmm <affirmative>.And there’s a lot of canceling inventory coming off, but it’s just a slow thick in the mud grind market right now. But I mean, it just, for me, it’s not trend until it goes past. Like, like we have to see what if we go into first quarter in 2026 and it’s slow then that’s a trend to me. But I feel like with the seasonals and the three months of information, like they just kind of gotta ride the waves and to quit panicking because we don’t know what we don’t know.Yeah. I just, I feel like, what I hear a lot and I see in the notes of, of these shows that we do is people saying, oh well you know, you’re giving bad advice and we’re in a bubble and there’s gonna be a housing crash. And the thinking is always, well, prices are so high, it must be a bubble. And that’s not the right thinking. It, it makes sense because in 2008, prices were high and then they crashed. But that didn’t have to do with high prices. It had to do with mortgage rates adjusting and they were on short term rates. All of a sudden their payment doubled in many cases and they couldn’t afford the payment. If that didn’t happen, we wouldn’t have had the crash. So we don’t have that right now. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. We have high home prices, similar kind of issue, but most people who own those homes are on fixed rates. Most people, the majority are in fixed rates. So they’re not having any of that price pressure in most cases. Of course, multifamily, commercial loans, different story. They did see their payments double. But that’s the difference. It’s not a bubble just because prices are high. And that’s what so many people are stuck thinking.All right. Well I I thank you for sharing this one Kathy. I think this is a really important context for everyone. Especially when we go into these correcting markets. People start to panic. But if, if you really understand, you know, markets and prices, they’re dependent on both supply and demand. And for a real crash you need to see demand deteriorate. You need supply to explode. That’s what, when a crash happens, we’re not seeing either of those happen. We’re seeing demand relatively stable supply has increased, but it’s already starting to level off. Uh, and so these are indicators that although we don’t know for sure, much more likely that we’re in a correction than in a crash like we’ve been saying for a long time. But the data does really bear that out. Let’s move on to our next story, which I’m going to share ’cause I think it’s kind of related here because I know a lot of people who are saying, I’ll get into the market when we get mortgage rates down to 5% or five and a half percent <laugh>. And actually Zillow, John Burns real estate, they’ve done all this research that shows like when will the market like really get back to normal levels of volume, which is like five and a quarter million instead of 4 million. And they say five to 5.5%. So the question in real estate has often been when are we getting there? How are we getting to 5%? And Bank of America just put out a study saying they’ve understand they think there is a path to a 5% mortgage rate, but it’s not pretty <laugh>. This is not a good looking thing rightHere. Oh no.Yeah. They said the path to 5% mortgage rates is if the Fed does mortgage backed securities, quantitative easing. Oh,
And I’m gonna be honest, I feel pretty validated about this ’cause I have been saying this for a while. The only way you’re getting down that low is quantitative easing. Yep. If you’re not familiar with quantitative easing as it’s basically when the Federal Reserve buys mortgage backed securities or buy government bonds, which is for all practical purposes printing money, they take money outta thin air and they buy mortgage securities and they buy bonds. And this has been an important part, especially after the financial crisis of stabilizing the market. Like they’ve done this to good effect in the past. I think most people in retrospect would say they probably did a little too much of it following the COVID downturn, which contributed a lot to the unaffordable levels that we have in housing right now and inflation. And so I agree with this. I think it’s gonna be really hard for mortgage rates to get to 5% unless they do this.
I guess my thinking is the probability of this happening to me is going up. I’m curious what you guys think, but if the labor market deteriorates and President Trump has stated many times that he wants mortgage rates to come down, that’s a tool after he almost certainly will replace Jerome Powell in May of 2026. It might be a tool he can influence. And I think the likelihood of this is going up, which can mean more mortgage rates, but also comes with a host of other trade-offs. So curious if you guys think this is even in the realm of possibility.It, it already is. The Fed has already said they’re going to stop their quantitative tightening.Mm-hmm <affirmative>.Which is selling off the stuff that they already bought. They already did this. This is why rates were so low. It’s called financial engineering. It is funny money. It is not great for the population because the Fed goes in debt over this, which is basically, uh, US who has to pay it back. Um, but it is what they do behind the scenes and um, you know, it’s great for those who own assets.Mm-hmm<affirmative>. Like it, it’s great for homeowners. That’s why we keep seeing housing go up and up and up from all this financial engineering and funny money and cheap money and just creating out of thin air. When you’ve got an asset that’s real, that becomes more valuable simply because it takes more money to buy it. So great for real estate, I suppose not great for the economy.<laugh> i’ll, I’m always looking for where the juice is <laugh> and for some reason I have a feeling next year all these things are gonna get pushed through and they’re gonna pump some juice in the economy for the elections.Yeah.And like I feel like we’re kind of in the mud right now and then we’re gonna take off and then I don’t know what’s gonna happen after that. I, you know, I think in the short term it could have a very positive effect for real estate investors in the long term. It’s probably not a good thing. It’s not probably, it’s not a good thing. <laugh> like we can’t keep printing. We’re gonna keep devaluing the dollar and then I’m gonna be really wishing I listened to Dave about buying gold and Bitcoin and all these other commoditiesStuff.ButDude, my gold portfolioIs crushingRightNow.<laugh>. Oh man. Me too. My fear portfolio is working. <laugh> Fear portfolioIs on fire rightNow. <laugh>. That’sWhy I think like even right now I’m contemplating pulling some houses off the market because it’s just slow. There’s a lot of fear, a lot of weird things going on and then just dropping ’em in the hot spot because real estate’s about timing. Yeah. And honestly, I do think next year there’s gonna be some juice pumped in this economy and that’s when you’re gonna wanna dispo off anything you don’t want anymore.Yeah, that’s a good perspective. I’ve been considering doing the same thing because of the slowdown here and going into the holidays. Although the Fed did drop rates again, and I know that’s probably not gonna affect interest rates like people think it is, but I don’t really care what actually happens. I care what people think is going to happen <laugh>. Right. And people think that the Fed dropped rates and that it’s, it’s gonna be a better time. And so hopefully that injects some buyer activity. So I’m gonna give it another 30 days and see what happens. I’ve got one house in particular that I’m considering holding off on selling. The rest I think are gonna do just fine.I got five <laugh>,I believe you <laugh>,You know what comes down to the sweet spot of the market ’cause things are moving. But yeah, if, if you’re outside that sweet spot, it makes more sense to pull it off and put it back on.I’ll just say, I, I, I agree with you what you all said, especially Kathy, like I think short term it could help real estate. I think long term this introduces some really significant issues. First and foremost, it’ll just make housing unaffordable again. Like this will make it affordable for a minute and then it will get unaffordable as soon as they stop mortgage backed securities, which they’ll have to do at some point because inflation will get out of control. The other thing that I think will compound that, and this is, I’ve been trying to say this for the last like three to six months, I’ve gotten increasingly concerned that long-term interest rates are going up long-term mortgage rates not a year or two or three years, but five to 10 years we might be in eight to 9% mortgage rate territory. I don’t even know buying mortgage-backed security and new monetary supply that in itself could do it.
But considering that we have such a high national debt, the temptation to keep printing money is gonna be pretty high to devalue the dollar to pay off that debt. And bond investors don’t like that. And if bond investors don’t like it, they’re gonna demand a higher interest rate that’s going to push up mortgage rates. And so one of the reasons I’ve been saying a lot and for my own portfolio really been focusing on fixed rate debt. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And not trying to buy anything with variable rate debt. I’m actually been spending a lot of time looking at new deals recently. There’s better and better stuff out there. But I’m just trying to lock things in ’cause I don’t want that adjustable rate. Even if there’s a good commercial deal right now, I’ve been looking at fixed rate commercial debt even though you pay a higher rate on it.
’cause I don’t, I don’t trust that in five years when I have to refi or seven years when I have to refi that rates are gonna be lower. I think you have to hedge and assume that they might be higher. So this is something perhaps the biggest thing to watch next year. Honestly, I I think this is, would be an enormous shift in the housing market and would change my personal strategy a lot if this started to happen. So, uh, something I just kind of want to bring up and share with everyone and we’ll keep an eye on it. All right. We gotta take a break. But when we come back we have more stories about buying opportunities in different markets across the country and the impacts of some of those high profile layoffs that you’ve probably been seeing in the news. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to On the Market. I’m here with Henry, Kathy and James talking about the latest news. We’ve talked about housing demand, how it’s up the potential for quantitative easing. Now Henry, you’ve got some more housing news for us. What is it?Absolutely. So I wanted to talk a little bit about, uh, housing prices and when they will drop. So there is a sentiment that people think housing prices are going to drop. And the reality is in some markets prices have come down a little bit. And so, uh, I wanted to talk about this article from Yahoo Finance called When Will housing Prices drop Costs have already decreased in some major Metro areas. And I thought I would like to have a little fun with you guys. So we’re gonna have you guys guess you all get to pick two cities that you think are on the top 10 list for housing prices dropping and you can’t pick Austin ’cause I know you’re all gonna say that.And what’s the time period since last year?This is price decrease since September 24.All right.Okay.So the article is essentially saying that, uh, the typical Home First sale spent 62 days on the market in September, 2025. And that’s a week longer than it took a year ago at this time. It also talks about, according to the US Census Bureau, that the median home price in Q2 of 2025 was 411,000. And it’s down from 423,000 at the beginning of the year. Uh, and so it is showing that the median price has come down and it’s also saying that the National Housing inventory is lower than before the pandemic. And it’s unlikely that we’ll see a huge jump in listings until mortgage rates fall a little more. It’s just telling us all the things that we’ve kind of talked about earlier on the episode. We’ve kind of debunked some of these things, but there are markets where housing prices have fallen and I know that there’s a lot of people interested in where those markets might be.
’cause this could be a place where there’s some opportunity to buy. ’cause a lot of these cities are big cities and they’re not gonna stay in decline forever. So we’ve talked about it with cities like Austin, like if you want to invest in Austin, this may be a time to get in because yes, prices are down. We know it’s a city where people want to live. And so I expect that markets like this rebound. So knowing where these cities are, if you either invest in these cities are interested, investing in these cities could provide you some opportunity to get in while prices are low. So you can monetize if and when values go back up. So with that being said, Dave, give me two cities.Okay. I’m just trying to think. I I gotta think that they’re in California, Florida, Texas, or Louisiana. Those are, those are like my, my big states for them.Okay. Okay.I know Cape Coral’s like big, but I don’t think it’s gonna be on this list ’cause it’s too small of a city. So my first thought was San Francisco or San Jose.Okay.Like that whole Bay Area.Okay.Then I think James lives in one of ’em. Phoenix is my other guess. And I think Nashville where like three of them I had up there. I would’ve said Austin. But those are my other ones.James,GimmeTwoCities. Ooh, two cities. You know what I’m going with the ones I do live in ’cause I’m feeling it the most. <laugh>, <laugh> dating might live in one of them too right now. I know. Oh yeah. If, if we’re going year over year. Yeah, because last September was hot in Seattle for sure. I think the median home price jumped like from like eight 40 to eight 80 during that time.Wow.So I’m going to Seattle and Phoenix. The, the two places I, uh, have most of my money in right now.So this is for personalExperience. <laugh>. All right. Kathy, what are your two?Uh, Seattle and San Francisco.Seattle and San Francisco. All right. Drum roll please. The winner is Dave Meyer. He nailed both cities. He got, he got San Jose specifically said San Jose and Phoenix. No, that’s not doing well. So you’re,Wow.But San Jose was six on the list. Phoenix is number seven. Number one is San Diego with a 5%, 4.9% price decrease since last year in September 24.Ooh. Buyer opportunityNumber two, Miami, Florida, 4.8%.Yeah, that tracksNumber three. Kathy, I thought for sure you were gonna go hometown. Los Angeles, 4.8% decrease.I did not know that.Number four Austin. Number five. New York City, New York, New Jersey.Really?Yep.IDidn’tKnowThat. 4.7%. San Jose, 4.6. Phoenix, 4% Dallas Fort Worth 3.3%. Boston, 3.3%.Boston. Okay.Boston 3.3%. And number 10 is Sacramento, California with 3%.Okay. All right. Well that was fun. Yeah. We should do more trivia.Absolutely. <laugh>. So if you want a deal in a market that may be emerging, you might want to check out some of these places and see if you can snag yourself something.I feel like Austin has had zero rebound since the rates have spiked. Like it’s the only one that hasn’t gone like this. It just keeps just kind of going like this.Yeah. Even if you look at like the California markets, they’ve kind of been up and down the last few years. It’s like sort of random. Florida’s been sort of consistently down. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But this, those are leveling out. Austin is just getting hammered. All right. We gotta take one more quick break, but when we come back, we’re gonna have more uplifting news about layoffs. That was a joke. It’s not uplifting, but we will talk about layoffs when we come back. Stay with us. Welcome back down the market. We got one more story for you, James. You’re bringing the, the fun stuff today talking about layoffs, but I do admit I’ve been following this very closely. It’s a little bit scary. So tell us what you’ve, what you’re uh, readingAbout news article from Yahoo Finance was all, all good things. It says layoffs hit Amazon’s up target and it’s fueling more cuts. And so Amazon announced over 14,000 layoffs. And this has been a trend with just all big tech right now is just slowly cut things back. And a lot of this is due to AI. And then also they were just being very frothy during that hiring process. You know, like during the pandemic there was like these tech wars going on where there was recruiters and they were stealing people and throwing money out. And I think there’s just a lot of bloat going on to where they’re starting to cut that back. And the reason I do feel like this is so important is because as investors, I’m really trying to get planned ahead for 2026. What do I wanna buy and what do I want to target?
And these are not like low paying jobs. Like a lot of people were speculating that it was gonna be like kind of lower tech paying jobs that were being replaced with ai. The average salary for these layoffs were about 110 to $135,000. And that does not include the vesting in the stock that these people also receive, which is on average around 20 to $40,000 a year. And so these are 150 to $160,000 jobs. And many of these tech cities, uh, Kathy, I think you would agree, like there’s a lot of dual income buyers out there. Like you got dual tech buying. So that’s a purchasing power of three to $400,000 that is really starting to get laid off. And not only that, it’s making that buyer pool very afraid to make any kind of decision because they don’t know what’s happening with the world of ai. They are very not confident in their job. Whereas in the pandemic, if you were talking to someone in tech, they’re like, oh, I’m getting offers everywhere. I mean, the amount of people I saw go from Microsoft to Amazon to Apple and like a two year period. Yeah. They’re just moving, moving now. No one wants to move. I can tell you that much. And so, you know, I, I’ve really been digging into where’s the buyer pool, you know, I’m in Washington, there’s a lot of tech going on that demographic of buyer, they’re typically buying 1.2 to $1.5 million houses. And that’s exactly where we’re seeing the gap in our market right now.Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so as we go forward, I’m really trying to plan out 2026, okay, what price points do I wanna be in? And I might play in the uber expensive, but also just I wanna be below those ranges. And so I’m really trying to track who’s being laid off, what’s the income, what’s the affordability and shift my price points around for flipping or development. Same with rents. I do think there’s rent growth gonna happen in Seattle ’cause there’s gonna be less buyers in the market and the average rents are 25 to 3000 for that type of employee. And I don’t think they’re going to sacrifice quality. And I do think we could get a little bit of rent growth in that kind of b class type of rents too. So now I’m looking at, okay, well where can I get some rentals at? Pricing is down that will serve that buyer pool.Do you feel like this is gonna have an impact on inventory from people who may have already purchased and now may not be able to stay in their home?Um, you know, with that buyer pool, from what I saw, most of those buyers were trading up anyways. So their down payments were pretty hefty. They weren’t like your low down 5%, 10% down buyers that were buying these 1.5. So a lot of these buyers were putting 30, 40% down when they were trading up. And so I think their, their current mortgages are okay and they’re not gonna be selling unless they get transferred to a different region. But I do feel like the consumer spending’s gonna drop quite a bit. You know, it’s gonna go back to like, Hey, I need to pay my mortgage and then whatever I left over, I’m gonna go spend money elsewhere. And so I don’t think we’re gonna see a lot of inventory coming there, but I definitely don’t think we’re gonna see a lot of buyers in that range.Yeah. We are experiencing something that our ancestors never had to experience and it’s going to be massive transformation over the next five years. And anyone who thinks things will be the same old same old is just not paying attention. AI is going to change everything. And this has been predicted, I’ve been new doing news stories on this for 10 years, that the, actually the white collar jobs are the ones at that the most risk. And it’s the blue collar job so far, not as much. We are going through major transformation and if you are not paying attention, you’re gonna be in trouble. That’s the bottom line. It’s a very interesting time that we’re living in.Yeah. I am simultaneously terrified by AI and also think it’s way overblown. I I just, you know, those are completely contradictory ideas <laugh>, but I think it, yes, there is gonna be a lot of disruption in the labor market. There is no doubt about that. I think the idea that AI in its current state should be taking people’s jobs is also just wrong. Right? Like I use chap PT every day, it makes mistakes all the time. I would never trust PPT in its current state to do what a human can do right now. So I think companies are probably gonna over layoff right now and think that they can use AI for systems that they probably can’t. But longer term, I this is obviously going to make a huge change.Yeah. Think about a year from now, five years from now, it’s, we can’t even imagine. But I thinkThat’s good though, Kathy. ’cause I, I feel like it will drip in a little bit more than people feel like it’s gonna be this cliff where it’s like, oh my God, everyone’s getting replaced. It might happen a little bit more gradually, which hopefully will give time for the new jobs that will come in an AI economy to, to come in. But just in general, I think this is just bad for the economy right now. Even though like I was trying to pull together data. ’cause we’re not getting government data right now on unemployment because there’s a shutdown. But I was looking at state data and private data and like, it’s not that bad. If you look at the overall unemployment rate, it’s really not changing all that much from the data that we have. But it’s high profile, high paying jobs. And if you wanna go one step deeper, if you look at consumer spending right now, I think it’s 50% of all consumer spendings by the top 10% of earners right now.
It’s crazy. And so if you start to see pullbacks in spending from the top 10%, corporate profits are gonna start to see that. Like, you’re gonna start to see that reflected in the stock market, I would think. And so I I do think more than it’s really an emergency, it might have a psychological effect on the rest of the country. And as James said, a lot of it’s just done about uncertainty. It’s not like a lot of these people are necessarily, you know, they’re gonna get foreclosed on or they’re going delinquent, but they might delay making big financial purchases just given. There’s just so much uncertainty right now. It feels like it’s sort of inevitable for purchasing, especially on big ticket items like housing to, to start to feel it at some pointWhen the people are getting rehired too. They’re just getting rehired from what I was reading. Like it’s just a little bit less too, right? So their, their income’s dropped 10% or so as they’re getting rehired. So it’s not like there’s just, they’re all at the food bank line looking for, you know, like Right. They can’t find work, right? They’re finding work. But that’s why it’s so important to pay attention to that kind of median income in whatever city that you’re in, right? And what’s going on around you. You can listen to everybody and the different strategies, but where are you investing? Where’s the job growth? Where’s the job cuts? And you really gotta pivot with that. And they’re everywhere, right? Midwest, Ohio, they saw 40,000 layoffs in 2025 manufacturing corporate cuts. That’s not the same income bracket, but where, how much are those people making? And then look at what do they buy? What do they rent? ’cause there could be a gap in the, in that market.All right. Well this has been a great episode. Thank you guys. I, I thought all these stories were really, uh, helpful. So just to summarize, Kathy brought us a story about how housing demand is actually up year over year, but despite that we are seeing prices decline in a lot of markets as Henry shared. We’re also seeing layoffs, which I think is a big thing to watch as we go forward. I don’t think it’s an emergency just yet, but obviously if this is the beginning of a trend that’s gonna impact the market. And then of course we have quantitative easing to look out for in the next six months, which is the big X factor that we all get to wait and see if that comes around again. But this has been a lot of fun. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.